王文：面對頂級外媒挑釁提問，我這樣回答
【觀察者網報道】4月6日至7日，中國國家主席習近平和美國總統特朗普在位於佛羅里達州的海湖莊園首次會晤。縱觀全球，恐怕沒有比中美之間關係更有影響力的雙邊關係了。為此，俄羅斯頂級國際媒體“今日俄羅斯”（RT）就中美關係，採訪了中國著名智庫中國人民大學重陽金融研究院執行院長王文。
這也是RT首次專訪中國學者。採訪中，RT記者蘇菲·謝瓦納茲問題犀利，時有挑釁，但都被王文院長一一化解。化解過程甚為經典，觀察者網特地將原文翻譯、整理出來，以饗各位讀者。（視頻及訪談中英對照附於文末。）
採訪視頻截圖
南海問題
美國國務卿蒂勒森此前訪華時曾聲稱中美遵循“不衝突不對抗”的原則，但南海問題上中美衝突未曾中斷。
就中美之間對抗是否不可避免一問，王文院長認為，當前中美之間有一個很好的談判和協調渠道，雙方高層官員就這些問題進行面對面探討，進而協調談判、處理危機。作為一個智庫學者，其相信當今中國有足夠的信心在南中國海問題上與美國進行斡旋。
RT記者蘇菲·謝瓦納茲繼續追問，中國是否存在主張對抗的鷹派人士，王文院長給了肯定回答：“當然！中國情況非常複雜，我們有13億人口，也存在不少民族主義者。這些民族主義者對美立場非常強硬，敢於和美國對抗。”
肯定之餘，王文院長又強調了中國外交主張和平路線的想法：“中國的政府非常理智並且希望在民族主義者和自由主義者之間找到一個平衡點，走出一條自己的外交之路。中國希望和平地、漸進地、雙贏地處理與大國之間的關係。”
中國政府不僅多次在多處場合公開聲明對南海的歷史性所有權，也在南海不斷推進吹填造島工程，甚至在一些島礁上建成機場。不少外媒將島建工作、中國駐軍等行動上升到“中國威脅論”。對此，王文院長指出：
“認為在南中國海的那些島嶼上，中國完全有權利保護自己的主權。那是我們作為所有者的權利，沒人能夠阻止。所以説美國憑什麼干涉南中國海島嶼的建設？許多中國人認為不可理喻，譴責美國的干涉行為。所以我認為最重要的是世界需要明白，南中國海問題是中國和東南亞國家的事務。”
南海永暑礁
美國宣稱“要阻止中國進入人工島嶼”，王文院長表示“對美國那些閒言碎語我們是拒絕和批判的。我們希望美國能平衡各方關係，對南中國海問題保持沉默。……對美國可能的行動，我們有充分的應對措施。”
台灣問題
在中美關係中，台灣問題也是不可迴避的問題之一。美國雖聲稱尊重“一箇中國”原則，但仍無視中國警告，對台軍售。對此，王文院長認為那些武器將來最終會歸屬於中國。
“中國反對美國對台灣軍售，但是另一方面，從學者的角度看，我們堅信美國賣給台灣的武器將來最終會歸屬於中國，因為台灣將來會迴歸祖國。台灣是一個島嶼，即使台灣的軍事實力比過去強了很多，也不可能改變‘一箇中國’的現狀，因為現在中國大陸的GDP和軍事力量都是台灣的幾十倍，所以我們有十足的信心（在未來完全統一台灣）。”
亞太國家關係
一直以來美國拉攏中國周邊國家成為盟友，例如越南、韓國、日本等。但是菲律賓現在與美國的關係破裂，開始轉向中國，即使中菲存在領土爭端。
就中國應如何處理與周邊國家的關係，王文院長談道：“我認為菲律賓轉向中國是非常明智的做法。菲律賓終於想明白了。過去，菲律賓前總統對美國過分信任，但新總統上台後幡然醒悟——美國只能給菲律賓空頭支票而中國可以為菲律賓提供常規的支持。菲律賓人很聰明，他們明白誰是好人誰是騙子。所以我認為，這給中國周邊國家樹立了一個良好的典範。我對越南、馬來西亞以及其他國家，甚至韓國、日本有充分的信心。”
這些形勢是否意味着美國與中國周邊國家及環太平洋地區構築的聯盟正分裂瓦解？王文院長表示“就當前新形勢而言，美國在亞太地區的軍事同盟無法發揮作用。因為，進入新世紀、面臨新條件，我們亞太國家應當崇尚可持續發展，如何做到可持續發展？我們需要的不是軍事同盟，而是發展，是投資，是基礎設施建設。”
中國引領世界
美國前任總統奧巴馬熱衷在亞太地區推行TPP協議，並將中國排除在外。中國為“捍衞自由貿易”，聯手東盟，積極推進“區域全面經濟夥伴關係協定”（RCEP）。特朗普對TPP協議向來持否定態度，一上台就簽署行政令宣佈退出。中國歡迎美國加入RCEP嗎？中國是否在謀求更廣泛的國際影響力？
針對RT記者這些提問，王文院長答道：“我們非常歡迎美國的加入。當今中國外交政策的核心價值是雙贏、開放、包容。所以我們歡迎所有國家加入中國發起的協定。例如我們現在最重大的倡議——‘一帶一路’，中國歡迎所有國家加入。我認為俄羅斯積極參與的行為值得肯定，而美國至今仍搖擺不定。”
王文院長繼續解釋稱：“中國是第二大經濟體，未來十年中國將成為世界最大的經濟體，未來3到5年中國將成為世界最大的消費市場。所以，中國希望給國際社會提供更多的公共產品。過去，世界低估了中國對全球治理的貢獻。三年前，習近平主席發起了‘一帶一路’倡議，這意味着中國作為新興大國，希望在和平、雙贏、避免衝突和戰爭的前提下為世界作出貢獻。”
“特朗普這個人很有趣”
採訪中，王文院長還對特朗普對中國不甚明確的態度表達了自己的看法。
王文院長説道：“特朗普這個人很有趣，他非常擅長學習，現在他正在學習如何做一個美國總統。所以我認為不應該根據競選時期的言論來分析特朗普，我們需要給特朗普學習的時間。中國有信心與特朗普打交道，讓他明白什麼符合美國的長遠核心利益。中美合作、美俄合作符合美國的利益，這是我的觀點。”
對中美關係，王文院長表示我們不能只關注對抗，應當看到兩個大國之間關係的其他側面。
“每年有超過600萬人往來於兩國之間，兩國貿易額接近6000億美元，這就是另一個側面——現在中美兩國是互相依存的。我認為對抗的説法其實是媒體的定義、媒體的觀點。現實中兩國推崇的是和平、互助、雙贏。我年年去美國，感覺美國普通民眾和中國普通民眾一樣，都認為穩定和平雙贏是兩國的共同目標。”
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Beijing can defend itself against American aggression - Chinese think tank dean
中國有能力應對美國攻勢——中國智庫院長如是説（視頻）
視頻來源：今日俄羅斯電視台
片頭畫外音：
Wang Wen. - the dean of a leading Chinese think tank - the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies - a frequent adviser to the Chinese government
王文——中國頂尖智庫——重陽金融研究院執行院長——資深政府諮詢專家
Washington is taking another shot at building relations with Beijing. The Chinese leader is preparing for a state visit to the US to meet with the new president. But this comes as tensions over the South China Sea continue to boil over. With hostile rhetoric from both sides, where will the relationship head? Last week, we got the American take on where the US and China stand. To get the view from Beijing, we are joined by a frequent adviser to the Chinese government, the dean of a leading Chinese think tank – the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, a participant of the Moscow Economic Forum – Dr. Wang Wen.
美國再次試圖向中國示好。中國領導人正準備對美國進行國事訪問，會見新上任的美國總統。不過此時恰逢南海緊張局勢不斷升温，雙方言辭不善，中美關係將走向何方？上週，我們瞭解到美國人對中美局勢的看法。今天，我們請到了資深政府諮詢專家、中國頂尖智庫——重陽金融研究院執行院長、本屆莫斯科經濟論壇發言嘉賓王文，探討中國方面對中美問題的立場。
Sophie Shevardnadze： Dr. Wang Wen, head of the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, it’s’ really great to have you on our program today, welcome. You’re also a frequent adviser to the Chinese president as we know, there’s a lot of questions to discuss. After a series of threats against China from the new American administration - from starting a trade war, to expelling China from its artificial islands - the U.S. seems to be trying to strike a friendly chord. Is Beijing ready to turn the page and start fresh?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：王文院長，歡迎您來到我們節目現場。我們瞭解到您不僅擔任重陽金融研究院的執行院長，還是中國政府的資深諮詢專家，今天有很多話題值得討論。在新一屆美國政府對中國拋出一系列威脅言論之後，例如發動貿易戰、將中國驅逐出人工島嶼等，美國似乎正在試圖向中國示好，中國方面是否打算既往不咎、重新開始呢？
Wang Wen：Well, actually, how to deal with the new American Administration - it’s one of the most important missions of China’s foreign policy, and as you’ve mentioned that President Xi and President Trump will meet next week - I think, this will have a very good start point for the new period of the U.S.-China relationship.
王文：事實上，如何處理與美國新一屆政府的關係是中國外交政策的一項重要任務。我認為，習近平主席和特朗普總統的會面，將開啓中美關係發展的新階段。
SS：You mentioned the Mar-a-Lago summit. What does China expect from that meeting?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：中國對在棕櫚灘海湖莊園舉行的兩國元首會晤，有什麼期待？
WW： I think that the U.S. should learn from Russia, because Russia respects China very much and China respects Russia very much, but the U.S. didn’t respect Russia, didn’t respect China - you know, in the past. So that’s why this time China’s target is to, maybe, tell the U.S. how to respect the other great powers such as China, such as Russia. I think, nowadays, one of the very big challenges for China-U.S. relationship is how to avoid the historical trap - that means, if one great power rises up, another great power will launch a war at it or we’ll have a war between those great powers, the existing and the rising power. So I think China doesn’t want to have a war with the U.S., so China wants to avoid historical trap with the U.S.
王文：我認為美國應該向俄羅斯學習，中俄之間一直以來相互尊重，然而美國過去對中俄並不友好。中國希望藉此次會晤告訴美國應當如何尊重其他像中俄這樣的強國。中美關係目前面臨的一個巨大挑戰就是如何避免兩國陷入“修昔底德陷阱”——當一個強國崛起的時候，另一個強國會對它發起戰爭，或者在現有強國和新興國家之間爆發戰爭。中國不願意與美國發生戰爭，所以中國希望中美雙方能夠避開歷史陷阱。
SS： I want to talk in detail about how China should avoid the war, because the words of diplomacy sound wonderful and it encourages a lot of people, but then you go into detail and you wonder how that’s going to work out - for instance, Secretary of State Tillerson said that China and the US are guided by ‘non-conflict and non-confrontation’, but it’s not like the US is going to stop its navy patrols in the South China sea, or China is not likely to give up on its islands - so is it in fact impossible to take out the ‘confrontation’ out of that relationship?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我想就中國如何避免戰爭進行一些細節上的探討，雖然外交辭令總是無懈可擊、令人歡欣鼓舞，但當深入細節就會發現根本行不通。例如，美國國務卿蒂勒森聲稱中美遵循“不衝突不對抗”的原則，但是既沒有跡象表明美國海軍將停止在南中國海的巡邏，也沒有跡象顯示中國將放棄它在這些島嶼上的主張，這是否意味着中美之間的對抗是不可避免的？
WW： I think the South China sea is the issue that is very-very complicated. Nowadays China and U.S. have a very good channel to negotiate and to coordinate. I think this is a very good…
王文：我認為南中國海問題非常複雜，當前中美之間有一個很好的談判和協調渠道。
SS： What’s that channel?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：是怎樣的渠道？
WW： For example, Mr. Secretary visited Beijing, also we have a few of high officials who visited DC and we can discuss face-to-face and then coordinate and negotiate about the problem and deal with the crisis. I think this is very good. For China, nowadays, from think-thank scholar’s perspective, now we have enough confidence to deal with the U.S. about South China sea.
王文：例如，美國國務卿訪華，中國也有高層官員訪問美國，就這些問題進行面對面探討，進而協調談判、處理危機。我贊同這樣的做法。作為一個智庫學者，我認為當今中國有足夠的信心在南中國海問題上與美國進行斡旋。
SS： I was speaking to Pentagon adviser the other day and he said that there are people in Washington who want showdown with China - that’s his direct quote. Are there similar hawks in China who would also want a full long confrontation with the U.S.?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我前幾天跟美國國防部的顧問對話，他告訴我説，在美國有些人想要跟中國一決勝負——這是他的原話。在中國是否也有這樣的鷹派人士想要跟美國進行全面長期的對抗？
WW：I think the U.S.’ viewpoint about South China sea is very-very complicated. There are a lot of different viewpoints….
王文：對南中國海問題，美國的看法非常複雜，有許多不同的聲音……
SS： I am not talking only about South China sea -just in general. You know, there are people in America right now, maybe some in Administration or not who are actually for confrontation with China, for one reason or another - maybe, because of what’s you’ve mentioned, that there’s one greater power and the other one is rising and just in the matter of years it will become even greater than America itself. Maybe that’s the reason why they would want a showdown. I don’t know. But there are people in America who would want that. Are there similar hawks in China who would want that as well?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我不是單指南中國海問題，而是從整體意義上來講。現在美國有這樣一羣人，有的甚至可能在政府部門，因為這樣或那樣的原因主張對抗中國，比如可能是因為中國的崛起會在未來幾年威脅到美國的霸權地位。總之，持這樣立場的美國人確實存在。在中國有沒有類似的鷹派人士？
WW： I don’t think so. I think that firstly, the U.S. cannot not consider China as the next Iraq or next Afghanistan or next Libya. China is the second largest economy in the world. China fears not any hollow discourse, or hollow announcement from the U.S. China has enough power to defend [itself] against any enemy. On the other hand, China has the wisdom. We have enough wisdom to do with this very complicated and horrible, threatening, discourse.
王文：我不這樣認為。首先，美國不能把中國視為下一個伊拉克、阿富汗或是利比亞，中國是世界第二大經濟體，不畏懼美國任何空洞的言論或聲明，中國有足夠的力量抵禦外侮，也有足夠的智慧去應對這些非常複雜的、聳人聽聞的、威脅性的言論。
SS： But you didn’t answer my question. Are there people in China who have a similar view that there should be a confrontation?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：但是您沒回答我的問題。中國是否存在類似主張對抗的聲音？
WW： Of course! China is a very complication region. We have 1.3 bn population, there’s a lot of nationalism. For those nationalists, they have very tough…they dare conflict with the U.S. - but apart from this, China’s government is very rational. China’s government wants to balance those nationalists and those liberals and to take the separate road in the foreign policy. China wants to deal with any greater power relationship peacefully and gradually and with “win-win” method, yeah.
王文：當然！中國情況非常複雜，我們有13億人口，也存在不少民族主義者。這些民族主義者對美立場非常強硬，敢於和美國對抗。撇開這個不説，中國的政府非常理智並且希望在民族主義者和自由主義者之間找到一個平衡點，走出一條自己的外交之路。中國希望和平地、漸進地、雙贏地處理與大國之間的關係。
SS：We’ll get to “win-win”, but you know what I’ve been told time and time again, from the Chinese side and from the American side, that an “accidental encounter” can spark a full-on military confrontation, a war,even. Even the slightest accident in the region. Is this something that is always in the cards for the Chinese? Are you prepared for this kind of scenario? Because there are no guarantees… Accidents happen all the time.
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們稍後會談到“雙贏”，但我不止一次聽中方和美方講，哪怕一個小小的意外衝突都可能會引發全面的軍事對抗甚至是戰爭。對中國人來説衝突是遲早的事嗎？你們為此作好準備了嗎？畢竟未來的事誰也説不準。
WW： I think that yes, China is prepared for any possibility now, because on one hand China has a lot of think-tanks - we, think-tanks, think for our government and prepare every possibility. And on the other hand, that is our foreign policy is very smart. We avoid those worst situations that happened. This is a very interesting thing - trust China’s foreign policy. In the past 30 years, China had no war with any country. China is the most peaceful country in the world.
王文：是的，中國現在做好了應對任何可能狀況的準備。一方面，中國有許多像我們這樣的智庫為政府籌劃。另一方面，我們的外交政策十分巧妙。我們總是避免最壞的情形發生，大家要對中國的外交政策有信心。過去30年，中國沒有與任何國家發生戰爭，中國是世界上最和平的國家。
SS： You’ve used the term “mutual respect’, and the Chinese seem to use this word combination lately, which means both sides don’t challenge each other’s interests. The U.S. traditionally has its interests in the Asia Pacific, it has Japan and other nations - is China ready to accept that? Are you not going to challenge that? Are you not going to challenge America being partners with Japan, South Korea?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：您剛提到“相互尊重”，最近中國人似乎常把這個詞掛在嘴邊，它的意思是雙方不會挑戰對方的利益。但是美國在亞太地區有自己的傳統利益，有着日本和其他盟友。中國願意接受這個現狀嗎？還是打算對此提出挑戰？你們打算挑戰美國和日韓之間的夥伴關係嗎？
WW： Yes, we often, always, we feel the challenge, because of the rise of China. The rise of China has changed the structure of the Asia-Pacific and other countries - such as you’ve mentioned： Japan, South Korea or other countries in the South-East Asia - they cannot adhere, they can not be fit for new conditions. So nowadays China has to be patient to deal with other countries, neighbour countries. And gradually, let the other countries to be fit for China, new great power China. So, this is what I think is China’s foreign policy now.
王文：是的，我們一直能感受到中國崛起帶來的挑戰。中國的崛起改變了亞太地區和其他國家的格局，正如您所提到的日韓以及其他東南亞國家，這些國家不能適應新的狀況。所以我認為，當下中國採取的外交策略是，十分耐心地處理與其他國家和周邊國家的關係，讓這些國家逐漸適應中國作為新興大國的存在。
SS： There’s always the One China policy that U.S. administration has said it’s going to respect,but only in its own way it’s not going to challenge the status of Taiwan, but it will help it militarily. So how’s that sitting with China right now?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：美國總是聲稱將會尊重“一箇中國”原則，不會試圖改變台灣的現狀，但是美國只按自己的方式行事，例如美國仍然對台軍售。中國對此可以接受嗎？
WW： I think that One China policy is the borderline of China’s foreign policy…
王文：我認為“一箇中國”原則是中國外交政策的底線……
SS： But how do you view or feel about the One China policy the way Americans see it?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：您認為美國是如何看待“一箇中國”原則的？
WW： I think even President Trump - he knows the borderline of China’s foreign policy. After he got the position, his new position, he never touched the borderline. President Trump chose to respect the One China policy. It is my understanding.
王文：我認為即使特朗普總統也明白中國外交政策的底線，在他就職之後從未觸碰過該底線，顯示了對“一箇中國”原則的尊重，這是我的理解。
SS： Okay, but despite Chinese warnings, the U.S. is reportedly prepared for a large arms shipment to Taiwan. That’s a fact. Is China going to challenge that somehow? Are you going to take some serious counter-measures or is it just going to be statements of displeasure?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：但是據報道稱，美國無視中國的警告準備大規模地向台灣輸送武器，這也是事實。中國會以某種方式對此提出挑戰嗎？你們是打算採取嚴肅的應對措施還是隻是打算在口頭上表達不滿？
WW： Yes, China criticised sales from the U.S. to Taiwan, but on the other hand, form the the scholar’s perspective, we feel full confidence that any arms the U.S. sells to Taiwan, they will belong to China in the future, because Taiwan will a part of China in the future.
王文：是的，中國反對美國對台灣軍售，但是另一方面，從學者的角度看，我們堅信美國賣給台灣的武器將來最終會歸屬於中國，因為台灣將來會迴歸祖國。
SS：But future is a very broad notion. I mean, we’re talking right now, things are happening and Taiwan is getting stronger militarily thanks for the United States - are you okay with that? Because it can take another hundred years until Taiwan becomes Chinese the way you see it.
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：但是“未來”是個很寬泛的概念。我們就説當下正在發生的現實，得益於美國的支持台灣在軍事上正變得越來越強大，你們對此能接受嗎？因為中國實現完全統一可能還要上百年時間。
WW：I don’t think so. Taiwan is an island. Even if Taiwan’s military power becomes much more than before, Taiwan cannot change the status quo of the One China, because the GDP of mainland China nowadays is dozens of times of Taiwan’s. Chinese military power is dozen times more than Taiwan’s. Taiwan cannot change status quo or any conditions now. So we feel enough confidence. And, as for the future, China has a long civilization. We have the wisdom to wait and enough patience to wait for the new future and perfect the future.
王文：我不這麼認為。台灣是一個島嶼。即使台灣的軍事實力比過去強了很多，也不可能改變“一箇中國”的現狀，因為現在中國大陸的GDP和軍事力量都是台灣的幾十倍，所以我們有十足的信心。至於未來，中國有漫長的文明發展史，我們有智慧有耐心去守望和塑造未來。
SS： The islands in the South China Sea that Beijing claims as its own can soon become airstrips for combat Chinese aircraft. Do you think China is going to deploy a permanent force there to back its claim to the Islands?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：那些中國宣示主權的南中國海島嶼可能不久就會成為中國戰鬥機的簡易機場。您覺得中國會在那些島嶼永久駐軍以守衞自己的主權嗎？
WW：I think in those islands in the South China sea, China has enough right to protect our sovereignty. So, no one can stop it. It is our owner’s right, so why the U.S. is intervening in the South China island construction? There are so many Chinese people confused about it and criticising the U.S. intervention. So, I think the most important thing is that the world needs to know that the South China Sea, it’s a relationship between China and South East-Asia countries.
王文：我認為在南中國海的那些島嶼上，中國完全有權利保護自己的主權。那是我們作為所有者的權利，沒人能夠阻止。所以説美國憑什麼干涉南中國海島嶼的建設？許多中國人認為不可理喻，譴責美國的干涉行為。所以我認為最重要的是世界需要明白，南中國海問題是中國和東南亞國家的事務。
SS： But it doesn’t always look that easy. When I hear Secretary Tillerson say that “United States is going to deny” or not allow China access to its islands that it’s building - how do you react to that? What if the U.S. really tries to deny access to China, what are you going to?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：但是看起來並不容易。我聽美國國務卿蒂勒森説美國將會阻止中國進入中國自建的島嶼——你們對此如何回應？如果美國所説屬實，你們打算怎麼做？
WW： But the U.S. often gossips over everything,
王文：美國對任何事都會閒言碎語。
SS： You mean it’s just blah-blah-blah? And there’s…
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：您的意思是美國只是巴拉－巴拉－巴拉地説空話嗎？
WW： This is a reality we look at. The U.S. often gossips about everything in the world, but they cannot do everything, now.
王文：這就是我們看到的事實。美國對世界上的所有事指手畫腳，但現在還成不了什麼氣候。
SS： So right now, when the U.S. Administration is saying “we’re going to deny China access to its artificial islands that it’s building” - you think it has no grounds for truth or action?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：所以，現在美國正在宣稱的“我們將要阻止中國進入他們建造的人工島嶼”，您認為完全沒有事實或行動基礎？
WW： We reject those gossips. We criticise those gossips. We ask the U.S. to keep the balance, keep silence about South China Sea.
王文：對美國那些閒言碎語我們是拒絕和批判的。我們希望美國能平衡各方關係，對南中國海問題保持沉默。
SS： What happens if the United States really tries to deny China access to the islands that it’s building? How will China react?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：如果美國真正採取行動阻撓中國進入自建島嶼，中國將如何應對？
WW： I think we depend on U.S. real activity. We have enough solutions to react to the U.S. actions, so we just wait and see how will the U.S. act, yes.
王文：這取決於美國的具體行動。對美國可能的行動我們有充分的應對措施，只需等待和觀察美國的行動。
SS： So, also, we’re seeing a tendency right now:U.S. has long had its allies your regional - Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, but for instance, Philippines right now is turning to China, breaking its ties with America - even though you have a territorial dispute. What should China do woo the other nations around it? Do you think they’re going to form an alliance around Beijing now?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們現在看到這樣一個趨勢——一直以來美國拉攏中國周邊國家成為盟友，例如越南、韓國、日本等，但是菲律賓現在與美國的關係破裂，開始轉向中國，即使中菲存在領土爭端。中國應該如何處理與周邊國家的關係？您認為周邊國家會圍繞中國結成緊密的同盟嗎？
WW： I think that Phillippines’ turn to China - it’s a very clever and very right thing. Philippines woke up. In the past, the former President of Philippines trusted the U.S. too much and then the new President of Philippines suddenly woke up： the U.S. cannot give Phillippines anything, but China keeps sending regular support to Philippines. So, I think this is why Philippines… Filipino people are smart, they see which country treats them well, which country just cheats him. So I think, this is a very good example for the neighbour countries of China. I have enough confidence for Vietnam, for Malaysia, as well as the other countries, even South Korea or Japan.
王文：我認為菲律賓轉向中國是非常明智的做法。菲律賓終於想明白了。過去，菲律賓前總統對美國過分信任，但新總統上台後幡然醒悟——美國只能給菲律賓空頭支票而中國可以為菲律賓提供常規的支持。菲律賓人很聰明，他們明白誰是好人誰是騙子。所以我認為，這給中國周邊國家樹立了一個良好的典範。我對越南、馬來西亞以及其他國家，甚至韓國、日本有充分的信心。
SS： Looking at things right now, do you think that the the system of US alliances in the region, with your neighbours, with the Pacific Rim, do you think it’s falling apart, do you think that system is unraveling?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：觀察現在的形勢，您是否認為美國與中國周邊國家以及環太平洋地區構築的聯盟正在分裂瓦解？
WW： I think for the new conditions of Asia-Pacific, the military alliance with the U.S. is useless, because it’s new conditions, it’s a new century. We, Asia-Pacific countries should develop sustainability, so I think - how do we develop sustainability? We don’t need those military alliances, we need development, we need investment, we need construction of infrastructure, not those military allies. This is my answer.
王文：就當前新形勢而言，美國在亞太地區的軍事同盟無法發揮作用。因為，進入新世紀、面臨新條件，我們亞太國家應當崇尚可持續發展，如何做到可持續發展？我們需要的不是軍事同盟，而是發展，是投資，是基礎設施建設。
SS： It’s true that we’ve spoken so much about the U.S.-Chinese confrontation and you hear about it a lot - then I think about it, and I’m thinking, it’s impossible for an average American to imagine his or her life without Chinese products. I mean, the two countries are so closely connected by trade and intertwined economically - how is it even possible to talk about confrontation when both sides have so much to lose in terms of money?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們談了很多也聽了很多有關中美對抗的話題，但仔細一想，對一個普通美國人來説，沒有中國產品的生活是不可想象的。我的意思是，中美兩國經貿關係聯繫得如此緊密，經濟上雙方都輸不起，這種背景下怎麼可能談論對抗？
WW：I think that for the U.S.-China relationship, we cannot only focus on those confrontations. We shall look at the other face of the two great powers’ relationship. Every year, there are over 6 million people exchanged between the two countries. There are nearly $600 billion dollars in trade. So, I think this is the other face - the U.S. and China now are in interdependent conditions, so I think confrontation is really a media definition, media idea. In the reality between the two countries we share, we enjoy peace, we enjoy interdependence, we enjoy the “win-win” games. This is my understanding. I travel to the U.S. many times, every year, and found that all those ordinary people in the U.S., all those ordinary people in China - you ask them, most of them will think that stability, peace, “win-win” is our common target.
王文：關於中美關係，我們不能只關注對抗，應當看到兩個大國之間關係的其他側面。每年有超過600萬人往來於兩國之間，兩國貿易額接近6000億美元，這就是另一個側面——現在中美兩國是互相依存的。我認為對抗的説法其實是媒體的定義、媒體的觀點。現實中兩國推崇的是和平、互助、雙贏。我年年去美國，感覺美國普通民眾和中國普通民眾一樣，都認為穩定和平雙贏是兩國的共同目標。
SS：I want to talk about the TPP agreement that President Trump has buried. President Obama wanted that deal very much and it would have excluded China. Your president right now is saying he will defend free trade, so is China actually ready to pick up on where the U.S. left off?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我想談一下特朗普總統退出TPP這件事，奧巴馬總統很熱衷TPP並且將中國排除在外，現在習近平主席聲稱將捍衞自由貿易，這是否意味着中國將代替美國發揮作用？
WW： All the countries in the world should follow the WTO rules. We have the existing rules, why does the U.S. should establish the new rules? So I think that Trump did well. Most of Chinese, you know, support Trump.
王文：世界上所有加入WTO的經濟體都應該遵守WTO 的規則，我們有既定的規則，為什麼美國還要建立新的規則呢？我認為特朗普總統做得很對，大部分中國人都贊同特朗普的做法。
SS： I understand why you would support Trump burying TPP, because, obviously it’s very unnerving when a huge deal like that excludes a huge country like yours from the region. But China has no devised a Free Trade Pact for the region itself - it’s called the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership - let me ask you think, is Beijing ready to welcome the US to become a part of it?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我理解為什麼中國贊同特朗普退出TPP，顯然中國作為在亞太地區舉足輕重的國家，被這樣一個重大協定排除在外肯定會感到不安。但中國也在該地區發起了一個自由貿易協定——地區全面經濟夥伴關係協定（RCEP）——請問，對此中國歡迎美國的加入嗎？
WW：Of course, I think if the U.S. can join, can participate, we will welcome them. Nowadays the core value of Chinese foreign policy is “win-win”, an open, inclusive. So, anyone who wants China’s initiative, China welcomes. For example, the biggest new initiative, One Belt-One Road, we welcome any country to join the One Belt-One Road initiative. So, I think, Russia did a right now, but the U.S. now still hesitates to join or not. This is very interesting.
王文：當然，我們非常歡迎美國的加入。當今中國外交政策的核心價值是雙贏、開放、包容。所以我們歡迎所有國家加入中國發起的協定。例如我們現在最重大的倡議——“一帶一路”，中國歡迎所有國家加入。我認為俄羅斯積極參與的行為值得肯定，而美國至今仍搖擺不定。
SS：Also, I wanted to ask you about China that has always been content with being a leader of its own region, but right now, we’re seeing China building the Silk Road infrastructure project and also investing so much in Africa - so is this tradition changing, is Beijing ready to seek more influence abroad?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：另一個問題是，中國一直習慣於在地區充當領導角色，但是現在我們看到中國正在建設絲綢之路基礎設施項目，在非洲大量投資，這是否意味着中國正在打破傳統，謀求更廣泛的國際影響力？
WW：Of course, China is second largest economy and in 10 years China will be the largest economy in the world, and also in 3 or 5 years China will the largest consumption market in the world. So China, of course it wants to provide international, public good the world. In the past rest of the world underestimated China’s contribution to the global governance, so 3 years ago, President Xi launched a new initiatives, as you mentioned, a Silk Road initiative, or One Belt One Road initiative. It means that as a new great power, Chinese want to contribute to the world with peaceful, with “win-win” principles, without war, without conflict. I think, it’s a good thing for the world.
王文：當然，中國是第二大經濟體，未來十年中國將成為世界最大的經濟體，未來3到5年中國將成為世界最大的消費市場。所以，中國當然希望給國際社會提供更多的公共產品。過去，世界低估了中國對全球治理的貢獻。三年前，習近平主席發起了“一帶一路”倡議，這意味着中國作為新興大國，希望在和平、雙贏、避免衝突和戰爭的前提下為世界作出貢獻。
SS： Finally, really shortly, I am going to ask you about Trump - because you can’t really tell what Trump wants from China, because one day he says one thing, another day he says another thing - do you think that’s part of his strategy, to be unpredictable, and if yes, is this working?
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：最後我想簡短地問您一個關於特朗普的問題，特朗普對中國的態度一直不甚明確、朝令夕改，您是否認為這種不可預測性其實是他的一種策略，如果是的話，對中國起作用嗎？
WW： Trump is a very interesting guy, and now he is studying, he’s learning how to be a President of the U.S., and he’s a smart guy to learn something. So, I think, we cannot analyze Trump according to election campaign period. We should give Trump enough time to learn, to study as a President, so I think that China has confidence to engage with Trump and to tell Trump how this deal will benefit to the U.S.’ core interests in the future. I think cooperation between U.S. and China, cooperation between U.S. and Russia will a benefit to U.S. interests. This is my viewpoint.
王文：特朗普這個人很有趣，他非常擅長學習，現在他正在學習如何做一個美國總統。所以我認為不應該根據競選時期的言論來分析特朗普，我們需要給特朗普學習的時間。中國有信心與特朗普打交道，讓他明白什麼符合美國的長遠核心利益。中美合作、美俄合作符合美國的利益，這是我的觀點。
SS： Dr. Wang, thank you very much for this interview, we wish you best of luck.
蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：王博士，非常感謝您接受我們的採訪，祝您一切順利。