西方是從什麼時候開始變得比東方更強大的？_風聞

【來源龍騰網】

正文原創翻譯：

When did the West become more powerful than the East?

西方是從什麼時候開始變得比東方更強大了的？

So after the fall of Rome, Europe was kind of lagging behind compared to contemporary civilizations in Asia like the Caliphates of Arabia and empires in China, right? And that went on for a while, but in the 19th century there are European armies colonizing everywhere they can reach with little trouble. So the West’’s military level must have skipped over that of the East at some point, but when was that specifically? And what would’’ve been the most proximate factors that lead to it?

在羅馬淪陷後，歐洲與亞洲的當代文明相比有點落後，比如阿拉伯的哈里發和中國的帝國，對嗎？這種情況持續了一段時間，但在19世紀，歐洲軍隊在他們可以到達的任何地方殖民，幾乎沒有遇上任何麻煩。因此，西方的軍事水平肯定在某個時候超過了東方，但具體是什麼時候？最相關的因素又是什麼？

評論翻譯

[dexed]

Probably during the industrial revolution.

可能是在工業革命期間。 0

Indo_Aryan_

Probably long before

At the Battle of Adyar about a few hundred French and their native soldiers routed an Indian army of 10,000

I think a better place to start would be whenever Ottoman armies started losing regularly to Western armies

可能在此很久以前就超過了

在阿迪亞爾戰役中，大約幾百名法國人和他們的本土士兵擊敗了一支一萬人的印度軍隊

我認為一個顯著的標誌是是每當奧斯曼帝國軍隊開始經常輸給西方軍隊的時候 0

Uschnej

army of 10,000

People regularly exaggerated the size of enemy forces.

I think a better place to start would be whenever Ottoman armies started losing regularly to Western armies

That would be the industrial revolution….

“1萬人…”

人們經常會誇大敵軍的規模。

“奧斯曼帝國軍隊…”

那就是工業革命的時候… 0

[dexed]

I would read Kenneth Pomeranz’’s book The Great Divergence. Pomeranz makes the compelling argument that it was the “western” powers’’ initial and then sustained exploitation of the resources found in the Americas that powered their rise to supremacy over the “east.”

我會建議你讀肯尼斯·波美蘭茲的書《大分流》。波美蘭茲提出了一個令人信服的論點，即正是“西方”大國最初並隨後持續地開發了在美洲發現的資源，推動了它們的崛起，使之超過了“東方。” 0

Minecraft_Cymmo

oh that’’s a nice approach

哦，這是個不錯的觀點 0

AgoraiosBum

Different powers at different time. For seafaring and navigation, it was in the 1500s, when European fleets could go around the world while Eastern fleets focused on trade in the Sea of Japan, China Sea, Indian Ocean, and Java Sea. The Dutch East India Company realized that this trade within the East could actually be very profitable, and became one of the richest companies in history by building shipyards in the East and trading among the east (and using the profits to buy spices and other goods to take back to Europe.

On land, the Mughal Empire and the Chinese (and Japanese) were still very powerful; for example Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb crushed the British East India Company in a short war that led to an apology, prostration before the throne, and payment of a large indemnity.

在不同的時間擁有不同的力量。對於航海和航行，大約是在1500年代，歐洲船隊就已經可以環遊世界，而東方船隊則專注於日本海，中國海，印度洋和爪哇海的貿易。 荷蘭東印度公司意識到，這種在東方的貿易實際上可能是非常有利可圖的，於是通過在東方建造造船廠和在東方進行貿易，成為歷史上最富有的公司之一（利用利潤購買香料和其他商品帶回歐洲）。

在陸地上，莫卧兒帝國和中國人（還有日本人）仍然非常強大。例如，莫卧兒皇帝奧朗則布在一場短暫的戰爭中擊潰了英國東印度公司，導致英國進行道歉，在其王位前俯首稱臣，並支付大量賠款。 0

But then internal decay beset the Mughals and Chinese; a series of civil wars broke Mughal power, and Delhi was conquered by the Marathas (and then sacked by an Afghan warlord), and by 1800, the British East India Company was the most significant force in India. China took longer to crack, but the two Opium Wars showed that China could not do much to protect its harbors and shipping, and after the massive and destructive Taiping Rebellion (which killed between 10 and 30 million) China was a broken power by the late 1860s.

Japan had stagnated since 1600, when it drove out the foreigners and limited foreign trade to Nagasaki with the Dutch; in the 1850s the US forced them to open to trade, which led to significant internal reforms that put them at the peer level of the West not long after.

The main factors were new developments in transport and artillery, accelerated by the industrial revolution, and the desires of international trade entities to open markets in these countries that was backed by national and nationalist sentiment.

但隨後內部的衰敗困擾着莫卧兒和中國人；一系列內戰打斷了莫卧兒的權力，德里被馬拉塔斯征服（然後被阿富汗軍閥取代），到了1800年，英國東印度公司已經是印度最強大的一支部隊。中國用了更長的時間才崩潰，但兩次鴉片戰爭表明中國在保護其港口和航運方面無能為力，在大規模破壞性的太平天國叛亂（殺害了1000萬至3000萬人）之後，中國在19世紀60年代後期已成為一個破碎的大國。

自從1600年驅逐外國人並限制與荷蘭人到長崎的的對外貿易以來，日本就一直停滯不前。在1850年代，美國迫使他們開放貿易，這導致了日本重大的內部改革，不久之後，他們就已經可以與西方同行相提並論。

主要因素是工業革命加速了運輸和火炮方面的新發展，以及國際貿易實體希望在這些得到了民族主義情緒的支持國家開放市場。 0

Indo_Aryan_

example Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb crushed the British East India Company in a short war that led to an apology, prostration before the throne, and payment of a large indemnity.

It is highly misleading to call the company’’s refusal to pay taxes a “short war” when it barely involved maybe a few hundred company officials at most, although clearly the situation wasn’’t as bad as 50 years later when about those numbers routed (technically) Mughal armies of tens of thousands

The Mughals at their best couldn’’t oust the Safavids, who were at best the equal of the Ottomans, who were not the equal of Britain or France by the early 18th c. The Mughals couldn’’t even oust the Portuguese from their holdings

Clearly wherever the split off occurred between the Islamic Powers and Western Powers, it was a long before the reign of Aurangzeb

“莫卧兒帝國皇帝奧朗則布在一場短暫的戰爭中擊敗了英國……”

將公司最多涉及到幾百名官員拒絕納的行為税稱為“短期戰爭”是極具誤導性的，雖然當時莫卧兒的情況顯然沒有50年後那麼糟，那時同樣是數百人，就（在技術上）擊敗了數萬名莫卧兒軍隊。

莫卧兒人在他們最好的情況下都不能驅逐薩法維的軍隊（注：波斯王朝），後者充其量等於18世紀的奧斯曼人，而奧斯曼在18世紀初已不是和英國或法國平級的對手。

莫卧兒甚至不能將葡萄牙人從他們的地產中驅逐出去。顯然，無論伊斯蘭列強和西方列強之間的分裂發生在哪裏，都是在里奧朗則布統治之前很長的一段時間內。 0