【歷史】在古希臘人出現之前，希臘是否曾經有過一個古老的民族居住？_風聞

【來源龍騰網】

評論原創翻譯：

Ioannis Kokkinidis

Per the ancient Greek authors Greece was inhabited by Pelasgians. Nowadays it is more thought that Greek-speakers immigrated to Greece in the Bronze Age and fused with the prehellenic population to form the Greek nation. The Pelasgians and the rest of the tribes there spoke a series of languages that was not Indoeuropean, not Semitic, not belonging to known language group as is for the most part undeciphered.

根據古希臘作家的説法，希臘的居民是佩拉斯吉人。如今，人們普遍認為希臘語系的居民在青銅時代移民到希臘，並與前希臘人羣融合，形成了希臘民族。佩拉斯吉人和那裏的其他部落講了一系列不屬於印歐語系、不屬於閃米特語系，也不屬於已知語言羣體的語言，這些語言大部分仍未被破譯。

In the 1990s a theory was proposed that has been accepted that Minoan, Eteocypriot, Pelasgian as attested in the Lemnian steles, Etruscan (per Herodotus they did immigrated to Italy from Asia Minor) and several other minor languages belong to a putative Aegean language group. Note: even in the case of Etruscan which is best attested and can be read, full decipherement is proving problematic.

20世紀90年代，人們提出了一種理論，認為米諾斯語、埃特塞浦路斯語、佩拉斯語（在利姆尼亞石碑上得到了證實）、伊特魯里亞語（根據希羅多德的説法，他們確實是從小亞細亞半島移民到意大利的）和其他幾種小語種屬於一個假定的愛琴海語系。注意：即使在伊特魯里亞人的情況下，這是最好的證明，可以閲讀，完全破譯證明是有問題的。

Culturally women had a more powerful position than in historical Greek culture, though to call any of the prehellenic culture a gynaecocracy is nowadays considered a bit of a stretch. Some of the prehellenic cultures survived in the first millenium BC, the Eteocretans and Eteocypriots, the Pelasgians of Mt Athos and Lemnos, but while there are inscxtions and some outside descxtions, we do not really have any text to tell their tale from their POV. Archaeological digs do not show something fundamentally different from their Greek neighbors.

在文化上，女性的地位比歷史上的希臘文化更強大，儘管將任何前希臘文化稱為婦科文化在今天被認為有點牽強。一些前希臘文化在公元前一千年倖存了下來，如埃特奧克里特人和埃特塞普里特人，阿陀斯山和利姆諾斯山的佩拉斯吉人，但是儘管有銘文和一些外部描述，，我們實際上沒有任何文本可以從他們的角度講述他們的故事。考古發掘並沒有顯示出他們與希臘鄰居有什麼本質上的不同。

Bob DeWitt

There is no generally accepted scientific evidence that the ancient Greeks originated in Troy, however the primary group of people that lived in what later became known as Greece were the Mycenaeans who mostly occupied the Peloponnesus, although there were settlements on the mainland as well.

目前沒有廣泛接受的科學證據表明古希臘人起源於特洛伊，然而，生活在後來被稱為希臘的地方的主要人羣是邁錫尼人，他們主要居住在伯羅奔尼撒半島，儘管在大陸上也有定居點。

Arthur John

With all the rather well written responses from many rather keen students of early Greece, is there one of you whom might say a few words about the Albanian’s ancestors.

許多熱衷於早期希臘研究的學者都給出了相當出色的回答，你們當中有誰能談談阿爾巴尼亞人的祖先嗎？

Peter Herz

The ancient Greeks spoke of the Pelasgians being there before them, and there seems to be a non-Indo-European substrate in ancient Greek dealing with things that are strictly Mediterranean and/or dealing with state organization.

古希臘人提到佩拉斯吉人在他們之前就已經存在，並且在古希臘語中似乎存在一個非印歐語系的底層語言，這與一些嚴格屬於地中海文化的事物和/或與國家組織有關。

Chris Barriere

Yes, the Greeks lived in Greece for thousands of years before interacting with boat builders. Evidence in some remote areas indicates a cultural continuity stretching back to the late Pleistocene. Nomadic Hunter gatherers began to settle down and practice rudimentary agriculture as early as 10,000 BC. The mainland of Greece has an equal amount of ancient sites, megaliths, and cave men bodies as any other place. The Real Question is who built some of the cities in Greece, because some are very, very old; much older than Ancient Greece or Persia.

是的，希臘人在與造船者接觸之前，已經在希臘生活了數千年。一些偏遠地區的證據表明，文化的連續性可以追溯到晚更新世。早在公元前10,000年，遊牧狩獵採集者就開始定居並進行初步的農業活動。希臘大陸上擁有與其他地方一樣多的古代遺址、巨石和穴居遺骸。真正的問題是誰建造了希臘的一些城市，因為有些城市非常非常古老；比古希臘或波斯古老得多。

Samuel Lee

Yes. At least some of them were called Pelasgians, & that name appears in Greek traditions of the mythical & heroic period. Certain Greek place names & other words, for example those ending in “-nth-” (like Korinthos (Corinth), Tiryns (genitive Tirynthos), & akanthos), are thought to have been derived from the language of the pre-Hellenic population. Also the original inhabitants of Crete (today called the Minoans, from the name of the legendary King Minos, who ruled in the Cretan city of Knossos, one of the major centers of Minoan culture) spoke a non-Greek language, written in the Linear A scxt, which has not yet been deciphered (although Linear B, which was derived from Linear A, has been deciphered, which is how we know that the Mycenaeans spoke an early form of Greek). The Minoan language may have been semitic, since the people known to the ancient Greeks as the Eteocretans spoke a semitic language.

是的，至少有一些人被稱為佩拉斯吉人，這個名字出現在希臘神話和英雄時代的傳統中。一些希臘地名和其他詞彙，例如以“-nth-”結尾的詞（如科林斯（Korinthos）、提林斯（Tiryns，屬格為Tirynthos）和阿坎索斯（akanthos）），被認為源自前希臘人羣體的語言。此外，克里特島的原住民（今天被稱為米諾斯人，以傳説中的米諾斯國王的名字命名，他統治着克里特島城市克諾索斯，克諾索斯是米諾斯文化的主要中心之一）講的是一種非希臘語言，用線性文字 A 書寫，這種文字尚未被破譯（儘管從線性文字 A 衍生而來的線性文字 B 已被破譯，這就是我們知道邁錫尼人講的是希臘語的早期形式）。米諾斯語可能屬於閃米特語，因為古希臘人所稱的伊特奧克里特人講的是一種閃米特語。

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

April Miller

The first inhabitants of Greece were the prehistoric peoples who settled in the region during the Neolithic period (circa 7000–3200 BCE). These were diverse cultures with varying levels of technological advancement, such as the Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenaean civilizations.

希臘的第一批居民是史前民族，他們在新石器時代（公元前7000年左右至公元前3200年）定居於該地區。這些文化多樣，具有不同水平的技術進步，包括如基克拉迪文明、米諾斯文明和邁錫尼文明。

The Greeks, as we commonly recognize them, emerged during the Bronze Age. The earliest recognized Greek civilization is the Minoan civilization, which flourished on the island of Crete around 2000 BCE. The Mycenaeans, another early Greek civilization, emerged on the mainland around 1600 BCE. These were the precursors to what we consider classical Greek culture, which emerged around the 8th century BCE with the development of city-states like Athens and Sparta.

我們通常所認知的希臘人是在青銅時代出現的。最早被認知的希臘文明是米諾斯文明，該文明於公元前 2000 年左右在克里特島上蓬勃發展。另一個早期希臘文明是邁錫尼文明，約公元前1600年在希臘大陸上興起。這些文明是我們所認為的古典希臘文化的前身，古典希臘文化大約在公元前8世紀隨着雅典和斯巴達等城邦的發展而形成。

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

George Alparos

You’re quite confused there.

How would you call the people inhabiting Greece before the supposedly “Greeks” came to inhabit it? Your question doesn’t make any sense.

Clearly what you ask rests on some nonsense theories about some non-existent Indoeuropean people that spoke some non-existent Indoeuropean language and supposedly some of these ghost people inhabited Greece kicking out its former habitats.

你顯然有些混淆。

你會如何稱呼那些在所謂“希臘人”來到之前居住在希臘的人？你的問題沒有任何意義。

顯然，你的問題建立在一些關於不存在的印度-歐洲人及其所説的不存在的印度-歐洲語言的荒謬理論之上，且這些所謂的幽靈人居住在希臘，驅逐了當地的居民。

However, truth is that there hasn’t been single evidence of their existence whatsoever, so this IE theory collapsed in its own stupidity. To date, some insist on writing about the ghost Indoeuropeans in Wikipedia and the like only to embarrass themselves.

The fact is that not a single ancient author doubted the indigenity of the Greek people and there hasn’t been a single reference of any other people come settling in Greece at any time in ancient history.

然而，事實是，至今沒有任何證據證明他們的存在，因此這個印度-歐洲人理論在其愚蠢中崩潰了。至今仍有人堅持在維基百科等地方寫關於這些幽靈印度-歐洲人的內容，真是讓人感到羞愧。

事實上，沒有任何古代作者質疑希臘民族的本土性，也沒有任何文獻提到在古代歷史中有其他民族在希臘定居的情況。

Mike White

I think it is reasonable to consider all people who lived in Greece peaceably, and were accepted, for at least a couple of generations, as being Greeks. Just as modern people who may have migrated there consider themselves rightly as Greeks.

我認為，考慮到所有在希臘和平生活並被接受了幾代人的人，認為他們是希臘人是合理的。就像現代人可能遷移到那裏，理所當然地認為自己是希臘人一樣。

When under Frisian domination, those Frisians who lived in Greece likely thought of themselves as Greeks. The Arcadians were Greeks, as were the Dorians after being there a while. The Phoenicians who founded Thebes were in time Greeks, as were the Cretans and Phrygians, those of the Cyclades, and Ionia.

在弗里斯蘭人統治期間，那些生活在希臘的弗裏西亞人可能也認為自己是希臘人。阿卡迪亞人是希臘人，多利安人在希臘居住了一段時間後也成了希臘人。創立底比斯的腓尼基人最終也是希臘人，克里特人、弗裏吉亞人、基克拉澤斯羣島的人和伊奧尼亞人也是如此。

The same can be said for the Cyclopes and Titans who built the megalithic structures of Greece.

When I read Homer with respect and admiration, I feel myself a little bit Greek. As we all should, for the Greeks stood sentry and protected the eastern gateway of Europe for millennias. They hold a tradition of being hospitable warriors and noble philosophers.

對於建造希臘巨石結構的獨眼巨人和泰坦們，也可以這樣説。

當我懷着尊重和欽佩閲讀荷馬時，我感覺自己也有一點希臘人的身份。我們所有人都應該如此，因為希臘人守衞並保護了歐洲的東部門户長達數千年。他們有着熱情好客的戰士和高尚的哲學家的傳統。