【科技】豐田氫動力汽車夢想破滅 - 車主起訴豐田_風聞

【來源龍騰網】

Mirai在日語中是“未來”的意思。當豐田公司豪賭氫能是未來汽車的發展方向時，將其首款氫燃料電池電動汽車命名為豐田Mirai似乎是對這一宏偉目標的最好詮釋。

然而，事與願違。正如早期用户發現的那樣，Mirai並不是許多人希望的理想未來。事實上，基礎設施的崩潰和折舊讓一些車主要求豐田回購，甚至對他們的經歷提起訴訟。

如今，他們中的許多人都很憤怒，覺得自己被欺騙了，因為他們覺得自己買了一輛潛力巨大的汽車，但卻沒有得到必要的燃料基礎設施的支持。

評論原創翻譯：

@RudiJock

I have an acquaintance in Toronto (Canada) who owns a used vehicle dealership. He bought a practically new hydrogen car on auction for $12K(CAD) having no clue about hydrogen other than he hit was the future. He drove it for a couple of days and decided to get it refulled. SHOCK! The closest station was in California. He in turn sold it to a Californian for $6K(CAD). Lesson learned.

我在多倫多有個開二手車行的朋友。他在拍賣會上花1.2萬加元買了輛幾乎全新的氫能源汽車。他對氫能源一無所知，就覺得這是未來。開了沒幾天他想加氫。結果懵了！最近的加氫站居然在加利福尼亞。他只好虧本賣給了一個加州人，才賣了6000加元。呵呵，長記性了。

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

@990Hyper

Pure genius

絕對是個天才。

@billbell3737

I did an analysis about 12 years ago on hydrogen powered cars. I determined even if hydrogen could be created for free it was still not economical. The cost of storing, transporting and dispensing it made it cost prohibitive compared to electricity.

大概12年前我分析過氫能源汽車。結論是即使氫氣能零成本生產，也完全不划算。光是儲存、運輸和加註的成本，就比用電貴得多了。

@simonreeves2017

Hi Sam, I’m nearly 60YO, the speculation about hydrogen as a fuel has been running my whole life, along with nuclear fusion energy. Neither has come to anything in 60 years. Both have such fundamental problems that are extremely difficult to solve because they are rooted in the laws of physics. Hydrogen is the smallest element in the universe and is highly reactive, this makes it extremely difficult to contain in a fuel tank, and all the hydrogen on Earth exists in compounds formed with other elements. To use it requires a chemical reaction to release free hydrogen. Unless someone can reinvent the physics of our universe, hydrogen will remain an extremely difficult and expensive fuel source.

嗨，山姆，我快60歲了，關於氫燃料的憧憬貫穿了我的一生，跟核聚變一樣。這60年來，兩個技術都沒啥進展。它們都存在根本性的問題，因為這些問題源於物理定律，極難解決。

氫是宇宙中最小的元素，而且很活潑，這讓它在燃料箱裏特別難存儲。地球上的氫都是以化合物形式存在的。要用它就得靠化學反應釋放出遊離氫。

除非有人能重寫宇宙物理定律，否則氫永遠都是個極其難搞而且昂貴的燃料來源。

@gohumberto

ANYONE who knows anything about logistics, energy, and energy supply knew this was crazy idea …. except at Toyota apparently. They need to fire their chief engineer.

- Producing Hydrogen uses a lot of electricity and is inefficient (so why not just put electricity straight into cars?)

- Using Hydrogen fuel cells basically converts it back to electricity inefficiently (so why not just use electric batteries?)

- Transporting vast quantities of liquid hydrogen daily by road is hugely dangerous and relies on (presumably) millions of diesel-powered trucks.

- Storing Hydrogen is difficult. It’s very “leaky” and required the installation of a high-pressure storage facility at every “gas station”.

- There’s zero option for home charging, so your life involves constant pumping of compressed hydrogen at some cold dirty gas-station.

- Drivers now have to pump highly compressed liquid hydrogen into a big metal tank, right behind their children’s" seats (You’re scared of EV fires? Wait until you see a Hydrogen fire).

- Who wants to live close to a Hydrogen pumping station? (Because you’ll almost certainly have gasoline on site as well ….. Now you just created a bomb site).

It’s so impractical at virtually EVERY stage, that it’s clearly a non-starter for most applications. Maybe it’s OK for big Truck depots, where you can store vast quantities on-site, for your fleet, but to distribute liquid hydrogen to every gas-station in the World is just never going to happen, it can’t happen, it isn’t happening (don’t believe me? go find your local Hydrogen filling point).

- - The sheer beauty of EVs is simplicity. “The best part is no part” and the EV process has very few parts.

In the best case the Sun sends you electricity and you distribute it instantly with cables. It goes directly into EV batteries and turns an electric motor (fundamentally one moving part). You just removed thousands of moving parts and complex engineering logistics from the process.

但凡懂點物流和能源常識的人都知道這主意有多荒唐……看來豐田內部是沒這號人。他們該開除總工程師了。

- 制氫耗電又低效（那幹嘛不直接用電動車？）

- 氫燃料電池把氫轉化成電也很低效（那還不如直接用電池呢）

- 每天用卡車運輸大量液態氫太危險了，還得靠（估計）上百萬輛柴油卡車。

- 儲存氫氣很麻煩。它特別容易泄漏，每個加油站都得裝高壓儲存設備。

- 完全不能在家充能，你得老往又冷又髒的加氣站跑。

- 司機得往孩子座椅後面的大金屬罐裏充高壓液態氫（你要是覺得電動車起火嚇人，等着看氫氣着火吧）。

- 誰願意住在氫氣加註站附近啊？（因為那兒肯定還存着汽油……這不就成炸彈庫了嗎）。

這玩意兒每個環節都不實用，根本就是個死衚衕。

也許對大型卡車車隊還行，你可以在基地存大量氫氣自用。但想在全球每個加油站都配氫氣？做夢去吧，不可能的，也沒人這麼幹（不信？你去找找最近的加氫站在哪）。

- 電動車最美的地方就是簡單。零件越少越好，電動車的工作原理很簡單。

理想情況下，陽光產生的電直接通過電纜輸送。電能直接進入電池，驅動電機（基本上就一個運動部件）。這下省掉了上千個運動部件和複雜的工程物流。

@antonio_fosnjar

Biggest car company in the world thought it had enough power and money to influence the whole market

全球最大的車企以為有錢有勢就能左右整個市場。

@bertho6701

Sounds like the Japanese thinking back in the 80’s. Remember Sony memory stick?

這不就是80年代日本人的思維嗎？還記得索尼記憶棒不？

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

@andrewlim7751

One thing common about Chinese and Japanese, they both wanna control the market, the winner takes all mindset.

中國人和日本人有個共同點，都想壟斷市場，都有贏家通吃的心態。

@不死鳥-u4e

Toyota is rich, so they don’t care if it takes 50 years for hydrogen to be put to practical use. Toyota Research & Development Laboratory, Inc., the basic research institute of the Toyota Group, is conducting research on “artificial photosynthesis” and extracting hydrogen from “formic acid.”

豐田有錢，所以他們不在乎氫能源要五十年才能實用化。豐田集團的基礎研究機構——豐田研究所正在研究“人工光合成”和從“甲酸”中提取氫氣。

@adamesd3699

I remember being told that Hydrogen cars are the future twenty years ago. This was expected to happen by 2040. But in the meantime the EV revolution happened.

我記得二十年前就有人説氫能源汽車是未來。説到2040年就能實現。結果沒等到氫能源，電動革命先來了。

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

@keithng5249

The 134 buyers of Toyota’s hydrogen cars are probably employees or substantial shareholders of the company

買豐田氫能源車的那134個人，八成都是公司員工或大股東。

@JIMMY-nz1ld

If Toyota is so believed hydrogen cars they should get their sales in Japan up first than global market.

豐田要是真信氫能源車，應該先在日本本土搞起來，再考慮全球市場。

@glenthegoalsguy

Hydrogen leaks more easily than any other gas.

氫氣比任何氣體都容易泄漏。

@nerdbikes3841

The entire point of an EV to me was freeing myself from the chains of the gas station business model. With gasoline vehicles you must go 100% of the time to oil industry crack dealer. With EVs, I can charge from my solar panels at home, from the grid at home, from hotel slow chargers, or from Superchargers. It’s no contest. I;m free.

對我來説，電動車最棒的就是擺脱了加油站那套。

開汽油車就得百分百依賴石油公司那幫販子。開電動車，我可以用家裏的太陽能板充電，用市電充電，用酒店的慢充，或者用超級充電樁。這完全沒得比。我自由了。

@vinniechan

Japan betted on hydrogen early

Problem with storing energy as hydrogen is converting hydrogen is very inefficient

日本早早就押注氫能源了

問題是用氫氣儲能效率太低了。

@jwstolk

Hydrogen was a good bet, even with the inefficiency, when battery technology was not sufficient to build a BEV with reasonable range for a reasonable price. The problem was continuing to bet on it when battery technology improved. Hydrogen could still be a viable option for large planes and ships, but battery technology can now handle any road transport.

在電池技術還不足以造出續航合理、價格合理的純電動車時，押注氫能源是個不錯的選擇，即便效率低。

問題是當電池技術進步後還死咬着不放。氫能源可能仍然合大型飛機和輪船，但電池技術現在已經能滿足所有陸路交通需求了。

@KanedaSyndrome

Especially if the point of hydrogen is to make it into electricity, then why not just store it as electricity to begin with and skip a volatile step (hydrogen)

特別是如果氫動力的目的是為了發電，那為什麼不直接用來發電，跳過這個不穩定的環節（氫）呢。

原創翻譯：龍騰網 https://www.ltaaa.cn 轉載請註明出處

@AndyM…

Yeah Nah, the ability to EASILY generate your own fuel (often for free) for a normal EV, trumps having to go to somewhere else to get it. Hydrogen won’t survive !

得了吧，能輕鬆自己發電（而且常常是免費的）供普通電動車用，這點就完勝還得跑去加氫。氫能源撐不下去了！

@Jaw0lf

They got it majorly wrong. The cost of hydrogen stations are crazy there were very few of them and then you pay a lot more for hydrogen. All of which the EV solves.On top of that EV’s are selling massively now and are increasing every month.

豐田這次完全搞錯了。氫氣加氣站的成本太高了，還特別少。而且加氫的費用也貴得要命。這些問題電動車都解決了。更別説現在電動車的銷量在瘋狂增長，每個月都在上漲。

@philflip1963

Just What were Toyota up to?

I find it incredible to believe that they actually believed that Hydrogen was a viable technology!

豐田到底在想什麼啊？

真是難以置信他們居然會認為氫能源是個可行的技術！